Thanks to Suzuki and BIS. Bach: The Complete Cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach, Helmuth Rilling and Bach-Collegium Stuttgart (Amazon $ 77) OR you can get the entire BACH edition: The Complete Works of Johann Sebastian Bach - Bachakademie 10th Anniversary Special Collection [Box Set] (Amazon $235) and this set has the Helmuth Rilling set. It won the prestigious 2001 Cannes Classical Award for best special edition and the 2000 Echo. This is simply one of the most outstanding investments you can make in your classical collection. The Bach Cantatas Website (BCW) is a comprehensive site covering all aspects of J.S. But Bach also composed a number of cantatas for secular occasions of which some twenty works have survived intact. Briefly I find Koopman a nice "middle-ground" interpretively. The resulting performances have a purity of effect that is unique amongst Bach recordings: there is an almost angelic quality to them at times. How many sets of the complete Bach Cantatas do you need? ISBN M006204748. Some months ago I bought the complete Bach cantatas with Rilling, it was a very good offer, so I bought it. Reviewed in the United States on December 11, 2016. Bach composed cantatas throughout much of his creative life. Cantata "Ich habe genug", BWV 82a: I. Offered by Parnassus Records, selling music by mail since 1969. Please try again. The former employs "original" performance practice, the latter a "modern" practice. I will not endeavour to compete with them, or try to do a thorough review of the musical merits of Koopman's great achievement (to borrow another reviewer's expression). Having recently purchased the Bach Complete Sacred Cantatas Box Set conducted by Masaaki Suzuki, I now have all of the major cantata collections. How many sets of the complete Bach Cantatas do you need? Unable to add item to List. What is most appealing is the consistency of performance. About one third is 24bit/44khz and the rest is 24bit/80 or higher frequency. Cantatas for the Comeplete Liturgical Year, Bach: The Sacred Cantatas [Complete, Nos 1-199]. The complete cantatas, chorales and motets in study editions in 19 volumes. Bach, complete Anna Magdalena books, and the complete Schemelli Gesangbuch. Und das gelingt. Bach's Nekrolog mentions five cantata cycles: "Fünf Jahrgänge von Kirchenstücken, auf alle Sonn- und Festtage" (Five year-cycles of pieces for the church, for all Sundays and feast days), which would amount to at least 275 cantatas, or over 320 if all cycles would have been ideal cycles. Cantata "Ich habe genug", BWV 82a: I. Der Kauf wurde beidvernehmlich storniert. Koopman's complete cycle is being accompanied by the publication of three volumes about the cantatas: As of June 1999 the first volume has been released in English and the second is available in German and Dutch. Most people seem to miss that half of the SACDs are from 16bit and 44khz original recording.. so equal CD quality. Watch out.. most is NOT SACD quality but upsampled CD Quality! I can only wait and hope! Today, we celebrate J.S. Worth the cost, even if you already all of the cantatas in another series. Ich habe genug. So if you think you get SACD quality through and through that's wrong, most is just upsampled. Jeder hat natürlich persönliche Vorlieben, aber mir ist die Hauptsache, dass mit Überzeugung musiziert wird, so, als ob der Sänger glaubt, was er (oder sie natürlich) singt. To calculate the overall star rating and percentage breakdown by star, we don’t use a simple average. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders. This collection is going to take some time to fully absorb and appreciate, but what a wonderful journey it will be! The complete recording of J S Bach's cantatas. He never goes to the almost romantic extremes I sometimes sense with Gardiner. It also analyzes reviews to verify trustworthiness. The set also contains the texts in translation, as well as cross references so you can quickly find a cantata by BWV number or name. Bach: Cantatas (complete) by Helmuth Rilling. Many of his musicians - soloists, choristers and instrumentalists - have remained remarkably loyal to the undertaking from the very beginning, as has the Shoin Women's University in Kobe, by providing its chapel as the recording venue throughout the entire series. The complete cantatas, chorales and motets in study editions in 19 volumes. The Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra is very good, and the same goes for the choir. sheet music book by Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750): Baerenreiter Verlag at Sheet Music Plus. 5.0 out of 5 stars Earthly pleasure for an unearthly reasonable cost ! Bach’s extant church cantatas – an adventure that was brought to a close 18 years later. This volume contains parallel texts and translations of all Bach's church and secular cantatas that have come down to us complete. Prime members enjoy FREE Delivery and exclusive access to music, movies, TV shows, original audio series, and Kindle books. One note though, is you don't have a SACD player, you will still be able to listen on a regular CD player, but you wont get high res audio. This includes all 200 sacred cantatas recorded for Brilliant Classics on period instruments and sung by the Holland Boys Choir. Started at Erato, … The Complete Bach Edition - Sacred Cantatas CD31 2012. All of Bach is a project of the Netherlands Bach Society. Briefly, for those considering complete sets: Reviewed in the United States on August 19, 2015, Excellent music - presentation/organization could be better, Reviewed in the United States on February 11, 2010. 通勤と帰宅中の電車で聴いています。もちろん自宅のCD Playerでも聴いています。. 1-45) Teldec (1971-1989) Find album reviews, stream songs, credits and award information for Bach: Complete Cantatas, Vol. There are to my knowledge two (more or less) complete cycles of the sacred cantatas. But, Koopman's forces never disappoint. A MUST for everyone who is passionate about Bach´s music! The last page in the booklet tells you what the source is. They were recorded live in different churches during the 250th anniversary of Bach’s death, in 2000. Still the best complete collection of Bach's Cant December 17, 2019 By Rimas D. (Etobicoke, ON) See All My Reviews " Although I like John Eliot Gardiner's recordings of Bach's Cantatas, Helmuth Rilling's recording of the entire Bach Cantatas is a superb achievement. This is all 10 volumes of the complete Sacred Cantatas of J.S. Please try again. Other sets that I own (which are not necessarily complete recorded collections, some are partial collections that were never completed) include those led by Helmuth Rilling, Karl Richter, Ton Koopman, Philippe Herreweghe, Nikolaus Harnoncourt, The Netherlands Bach Collegium conducted by Pieter Jan Leusink, Fritz Werner and John Eliot Gardiner. They are arguably Bach's finest works, together with the secular cantatas (eight discs) and the other sacred vocal works (passions, masses, motets and oratorios) which cover 16 discs. Top subscription boxes – right to your door, © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. Used but flawless condition. Audio CD, Box set, Hybrid SACD - DSD, June 10, 2016, The beauty of Bach's music released in its finest audio yet, Reviewed in the United States on October 9, 2016. Started at Erato, … Buy CD or download online. Recorded and released over a period of 19 years, the BCJ cantata cycle has met with international acclaim, Masaaki Suzuki and his team earning the respect of reviewers and experts through the excellence of their performances, but also through their approach to the music, described by one reviewer as 'seeking devotional depth rather than brilliance for its own sake.' Manche sagen, Koopman nehme manche Tempi zu schnell, aber das kann ich im allgemeinen nicht bestätigen. There are many differences in the way the cantatas are performed. Die CD-Box enthielt nicht das zugehörige Booklet, worauf nicht hingewiesen worden war. Bach including 60 CDs in a deluxe box set. Series for the complete recording of Johann Sebastian Bach's cantatas by Ton Koopman and the The Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra And Choir. The Complete Bach Edition - Sacred Cantatas CD16 2012. when complete. This special edition exclusively offers the authoritative text of the New Bach Edition meeting Bärenreiter Urtext standards. Koopman has started a complete cycle (on Erato) which I will collect in due course and use at some stage in the r… Here is the most divine version of his 'Vergnügte Ruh, beliebte Seelenlust' you're likely to hear. No group of works in Johann Sebastian BachÕs output is as wide-ranging as the cantatas. They are always more than just "adequate". I have instrumental forces to perform these The CD’s are in the order of holidays and Sundays of the church year. K. Chen. This Aria and Chorale from Cantata BWV 140 by Johann S. Bach is based on the Lutheran Chorale, “Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme.” In English it is known as 'Sleepers Awake' and was written for the 27th Sunday after Trinity and was first performed in Leipzig on November 25, 1731. 7 - Ton Koopman on AllMusic - 1998 The other soloists are certainly noteworthy, and I particularly relish the moments with Christoph Pregardien and Nathalie Stutzmann. Helmuth Rilling is an excellent conductor and interpreter of Bach's sacred music. One by Harnoncourt and Leonhardt on Teldec (now available at budget price on 60 CDs) and another by Rilling on Hänssler (at super bargain price). Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. Prime members enjoy FREE Delivery and exclusive access to music, movies, TV shows, original audio series, and Kindle books. Music Everything you need to know about the Bach cantatas. Bach. Ich habe genug. Please Subscribe to our New channel @PAINTED. In 1995, when Masaaki Suzuki and his Bach Collegium Japan began the monumental journey of recording the cantatas, they decided to follow in Bach's footsteps. They have been translated into an accurate and readable English style that does not attempt to render the rhythm and rhyme scheme of the original German texts but allows the reader to appreciate the beauty and atmosphere of the poetry set by Bach. Signum: SIGCD488. This set has all Bach’s church cantatas for which the music has been found. Their ongoing complete-recording cycles rest on the firm foundations of the first period-instrument cycle of the works, set down in the 1970s and 1980s, by Nikolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt. There's a problem loading this menu right now. 2017 Preview SONG TIME Cantata "Ich habe genug", BWV 82a. Top notch engineering, conductor, soloists, and performances in a wonderful box of Bach's treasured Cantatas. Reviewed in the United States on August 15, 2019. Today’s talents will be tomorrow’s legends. For the first time on one label, the complete live recordings from the Bach Cantata Pilgrimage in an elegant box set. Please try again. In 1995 Masaaki Suzuki and his Bach Collegium Japan began the monumental task of recording J.S. ), The World of the Bach Cantatas, Norton, 1995-. Superb! The list includes both extant cantatas and, as far as known, lost cantatas. There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. The Amazon price is unbeatable. Reviews Dr Koopman's musical offering comes hard on the heels of that of John Eliot Gardiner, whose Bach Cantata Pilgrimage marked the Millennium with a complete set of the cantatas, now available on disc as a box-set. Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern (How beautifully the morning star shines), BWV 1, is a church cantata by Johann Sebastian Bach.He composed it in 1725 in Leipzig for the feast of the Annunciation and led its first performance on 25 March 1725, which that year fell on Palm Sunday.Based on Philipp Nicolai's hymn " Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern" (1599), it is one of Bach's chorale cantatas. - For reasons of completeness, pure musical enjoyment, scholarly research, attractive, spacesaving design and price, you cannot afford to be without Brilliant Classics’ Complete Bach … C-5: J.S. Hello, Sign in. Masaaki Suzuki can be said to occupy the HIP Bach wing using original and re-constructed Baroque era instruments, a reduced number of voices, correct Baroque era tuning, fleet tempos, vibrato-free bowing, transparent instrumental textures and a crystalline vocal beauty that often adds an unearthly clarity to its sound. Others, Masaaki Suzuki and Ton Koopman among them, have helped bring Bach’s cantatas to a wider audience than ever before. 1. Die sonstige Qualität war ok, auch die Kommunikation. Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations, Select the department you want to search in. Not a biggie for most, but for the audiophiles out there you may wish to consider purchasing HD downloads on eclaasical.com instead. The choir never rises to the level of Herreweghes Collegium Vocale Ghent, nor does the orchestra ever reach the heights of beauty and precision of the English Baroque Solosits. This special edition exclusively offers the authoritative text of the New Bach Edition meeting Bärenreiter Urtext standards. It also analyzes reviews to verify trustworthiness. Explicité uniquement en tant qu'expérience du "amazon reconditionné". The quality of the recording is excellent and the same is with regards to the executors. This is where this box is simply a bargain. Between 1994 and 2004, Koopman conducted and recorded all existing cantatas by Johann Sebastian Bach, amassive undertaking for which he was awarded the Echo Klassik Award, a BBC Award, and was nominated for both a Grammy Award® and the Gramophone Award. Although a few of Bach's sacred cantatas date from the Mühlhausen period (1707-1708), his first series of more regularly produced cantatas comes from Weimar, after his appointment as concertmaster in 1714. To support All of Bach and our musicians click here. Ich bin sicher, die Musikologen unter den Rezensenten werden sich sehr bald zu Wort melden, um die musikalischen Qualitäten dieser Edition kenntnisreich abzuwägen. The BCW contains for most works: detailed discographies, discussions, texts and translations, scores, … Bach: Complete Cantatas Vol. It is well presented on high quality paper and has a durable sewn binding. The Hanssler Bachakademie. JS Bach: The complete Solo Soprano Cantatas, Vol. There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. It is well presented on high quality paper and has a durable sewn binding. 1: Aria - 'bisher Habt Ihr Nichts Gebeten In Meinem Namen', Bwv 87 : 01:41: $0.15: 2: Recitative - 'o Wort, Das Geist Und Seel Erschreckt', Bwv 87 : 00:29: $0.15: 3: I found myself reading of the quality of these recordings and performances, and slowly coming to the decision that it was something I wanted to acquire for my own enjoyment, when possible. This is a wonderful set. Rilling was the first conductor to ever record the complete Bach cantatas and still, 25 years after they were first released in celebration of the Bach tercentennial in 1985, they remain the standard by … Le couvercle de la boîte était déchiré (pourtant du carton épais) et un des sommets du coffret était tordu. 1 February 2019, 16:59 . recording of the complete Bach Cantatas in a new, specially-price collector's edition. While the music is eloquent enough to speak for itself, Bach worked hard at marrying the tone of his music to the texts. The quality of singing and ensemble performance is second to none. Every cantata is reproduced in 5.1 channel SACD which is the primary reason I purchased it. For those who want to get to know these works a little better and scratch beneath the surface, Stoke's translations of the texts (introduction by Neary) is a must----- JS Bach: the Complete Cantatas provides accessable Enlish translations with the connections to passages from the bible and quotations from the German hymns or chorales. Try Bach Complete Sacred Cantatas: Suzuki / Bach Collegium Japan (55 SACD) (JAPAN IMPORT) Koopman v. Suzuki v. Harnoncourt v. Rilling v. Kuijken, Reviewed in the United States on December 1, 2018. His interpretations are among the most enlightening available in the market. Some 200 of these are still extant, of which the earliest hail from Bach's time as organist in Arnstadt (1703-07) and the last were composed only a year or two before his death in 1750. This Bach cantata is so beautiful it's basically from another planet. Shop and Buy The Complete Cantatas sheet music. (Download size 64GB). After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. U.S. Reviewed in the United States on June 25, 2016. Bach: The Sacred Cantatas [Complete, Nos 1-199] Johann Sebastian Bach (Composer), Nikolaus Harnoncourt (Conductor), Gustav Leonhardt (Conductor) & … The box set is lovely and will be your pride of place on your CD shelf for many years. Earth rejoices"): The "pretty Bach" approach suits this festive Easter cantata, a bit unusual in that it is both festive and Passion cantata. Bach's 333rd birthday. Throughout most of his professional life, Johann Sebastian Bach composed cantatas for use at church services: it is thought that he probably wrote at least 300 such works. Seul bémol : il s'agissait d'une offre reconditionnée. And then the SACD sound quality is excellent, and you can also listen in standard CD mode. 5 CD-1 [53:52]: Cantatas BWV 207a [33:42], BWV 202 [20:10] CD-2 [72:33]: Cantatas BWV 206 [39:52], BWV 210 [32:42] CD-3 [67:45]: Cantatas BWV 212 [27:33], BWV 205 [40:13] CD-4 [45:41]: Cantatas BWV 213 [45:41]: Ton Koopman: Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra & Choir (Chorus Master: Simon Schouten): Sopranos: Lisa Larsson, Sibylla Rubens, Anne … Koopman - Vol.1 Steve Schwartz wrote (July 11, 1997): Cantata BWV 31 "Der Himmel lacht! No, the star here (and a very bright shining start at that) is the bass soloist Klaus Mertens. Choosing the "best" of Johann Sebastian Bach's nearly 200 sacred cantatas is a daunting task, as each one seems perfect. Seufzer, Thränen, Kummer, Not ist soo langsam, und sooo intensiv!!! Suzuki and his BCJ are sublime, as is the quality of the recording. J.S. Aria. Für mich sind das auch die besten Aufnahmen der geistlichen Kantaten nach historischer Aufnahmepraxis. We don’t share your credit card details with third-party sellers, and we don’t sell your information to others. Report abuse. Top subscription boxes – right to your door, © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. Original Texts (German) Cantatas sorted by BWV Number sorted Thematically Other Vocal Works sorted by BWV Number sorted Thematically All Vocal Works sorted by Title Please try again. the recommended cantatas give interest- on ease or difficulty of gathering solo and They were written for performance in the ing, challenging lines to all voices. The remarkable consistency displayed throughout this long-term project is largely due to Masaaki Suzuki, who, when he introduced the series in 1995, expressed his conviction that Bach's music contains 'a message which can touch the human heart, regardless of nationality or cultural tradition'. 4 people found this helpful. Although most of the Cantatas are older recordings. Some use modern instruments, some a mixture of modern and Baroque era instruments and some adhere fairly strictly to historically informed performance practices, including the use of authentic instruments and smaller one-voice-to-a-part choruses that yield greater transparency in performance. Bach: The Sacred Cantatas [Complete, Nos 1-199]. Consequently the first volume of their series - Disc 1 in the present boxed set - featured three of Bach's very first cantatas (BWV 4, 150 and 196) while the series (and the set) ends with the last one: Lobe den Herrn, meine Seele BWV 69. It is sortable by the cantata number which equals the number in the Bach-Werke-Verzeichnis (BWV), by title, by occasion during the liturgical year, the year of composition and date of first performance, as far as known.The scoring is provided, grouped by singers and groups of instruments. We work hard to protect your security and privacy. I heard the first 7 CDs but then my exploration stopped. The project was the first attempt at a complete recording of the sacred cantatas, but Harnoncourt and Leonhardt were still working on the cantatas when a project which started later, led by Helmuth Rilling, Gächinger Kantorei and Bach-Collegium Stuttgart completed a recording of the sacred cantatas and oratorios on Bach's 300th birthday, 21 March 1985. Unless, he starts to rush things and cranks out a couple of quick volumes. After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. But he is far more empathetic in his interpretations where I frequently find Suzuki bordering on cold. The Complete Bach Edition - Sacred Cantatas CD30 2012 The Complete Bach Edition - Sacred Cantatas CD31 2012 The Complete Bach Edition - Sacred Cantatas CD16 2012 On this websize, you can find the texts and instrumentations of J. S. Bach's vocal works, that is, of his cantatas, motets, masses, passions, oratorios, and chorales. It depends on why you want them: some people collect just to complete their Bach library; some like to compare performances and interpretations of the Cantatas; and some like to have options. Bach Cantatas for Choirs by Martha Sargent ... complete form, a rich and varied treasure. High-quality recordings of the works by Johann Sebastian Bach are made freely available for everyone. Somewhat dry but contains valuable background information. Others, Masaaki Suzuki and Ton Koopman among them, have helped bring Bach’s cantatas to a wider audience than ever before. Complete Cantatas 1971 Johann Sebastian Bach: Complete sacred cantatas Concentus Musicus Wien, Leonhardt Consort, Gustav Leonhardt 90 LPs (Vol. Absolutely one of the best recordings of the Bach Cantatas. 0-8108-3933-4 Bach’s cantatas are settings of sacred texts (and secular texts, for a handful of them) to music, in a structure that alternates chorales, arias, and recitatives. Christoph Wolff (ed. Bach Cantatas Vol 1 - BWV 1-14, 16-19 Bach Cantatas Vol 2 - BWV 20-36 Bach Cantatas Vol 3 - … It depends on why you want them: some people collect just to complete their Bach library; some like to compare performances and interpretations of the Cantatas; and some like to have options. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations, Select the department you want to search in. 7 - Ton Koopman on AllMusic - 1998 It is an astonishing accomplishment, and I cannot praise it high enough. For the first time on one label the complete live recordings from the Bach Cantata Pilgrimage, in an elegant box reflecting the quality of the original series packaging. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on May 27, 2017. Among the best aspects of this re-issue by Hänssler of the Rilling Bach cantata cycle first released in 1985 for the tercentennial (actually the first such complete recorded cycle) is the extent to which Rilling's musicianship and the dedication and engagement of his soloists, choruses and instrumentalists bring out the sheer beauty of Bach's sung music. I've enjoyed Bach's cantatas to a limited degree over the years, as I gradually developed my appreciation of the various categories of classical music and slowly came to enjoy vocal music in particular. A MUST for everyone who is passionate about Bach´s music! Aria. What I would recommend are at least listening to … Series for the complete recording of Johann Sebastian Bach's cantatas by Ton Koopman and the The Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra And Choir. Dr Koopman's musical offering comes hard on the heels of that of John Eliot Gardiner, whose Bach Cantata Pilgrimage marked the Millennium with a complete set of the cantatas, now available on disc as a box-set. Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV4, possibly the earliest of his church cantatas, may date from the period of Bach’s first major appointment as organist in Arnstadt, a post he held from mid-1703 until June 1707, while the latest extant works take us up to the end of the 1730s. Helpful. Account & Lists Account Returns & Orders. For the rest of us, this is awesome. The explanations for each CD and the texts of the cantatas … Well, first it's J.S. These performances were recorded live during the Pilgrimage tour in 2000, and feature the Monteverdi Choir and English Baroque Soloists. The CDs in the box are packed in individual sleeves with Steve McCurry’s evocative portrait photos from the existing series, so the “feel” of the collection will be much the same as the individual releases. There are already myriads of reviews of the musical merits of Koopman's Bach Cantata cycle with the original 3-CD issues. I already had the earlier issues in 2 channel, but in SACD they really come into their own. The sleeves are color coded so that you know at a glance from which period they were composed in Bach's career, which is very handy. Reviewed in the United States on September 17, 2018. Celebrating Ton Koopman s 70th birthday, Challenge Classics finally reprints a reference edition of Bach s Complete Cantatas, now offered at a new price! die Erde jubilieret" ("Heaven laughs! The cantatas composed by Johann Sebastian Bach, known as Bach cantatas (German: Bachkantaten), are a body of work consisting of over 200 surviving independent works, and at least several dozen that are considered lost. There's a problem loading this menu right now. For the first time on one label, the complete live recordings from the Bach Cantata Pilgrimage in an elegant box set. 2017 Preview SONG TIME Cantata "Ich habe genug", BWV 82a. Bach's cantatas and his other vocal works and many of his instrumental works. In 1995, when Masaaki Suzuki and his Bach Collegium Japan began the monumental journey of recording the cantatas, they decided to follow in Bach's footsteps. Gillian Keith (soprano) Armonico Consort, Christopher Monks Reviewed in the United States on June 30, 2019, Reviewed in the United States on January 7, 2014. Artistically though, the greatest asset this set has going for it is not Koopman's direction, the choir, or the orchestra. But Mertens is totally in another class by himself. I have both sets and like each of them for their complementary attributes. Buy Bach: Complete Sacred Cantatas by Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Gustav Leonhardt, Johann Sebastian Bach, Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Gustav Leonhardt, Concentus musicus Wien from Amazon's Classical Music Store. Collegium Stuttgart was the first complete set of Bach's works to be released together on CD. Bis dahin möchte ich mit meiner mangels nötiger Fachkenntnisse eher nicht-musikologischen Einschätzung einen kleinen Kaufanreiz für dieses große Projekt setzen. Find album reviews, stream songs, credits and award information for Bach: Complete Cantatas, Vol. Johann Sebastian Bach THE COMPLETE SECULAR CANTATAS performed by Carolyn Sampson, soprano Joanne Lunn, soprano Sophie Junker, soprano Hana Blazikova, bass Mojca Erdmann, soprano Robin Blaze, countertenor Damien Guillon, countertenor Hiroya Aoki, countertenor Makoto Sakurada, tenor Charles Daniels, tenor Wolfram Lattke, tenor Roderick Williams, baritone Stephan … Mertens rarely has any serious competition elsewhere.
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