In this relatively weak state, Durin's Bane fled. Granted, Gandalf didn’t set out to face a Balrog, and he died in the process (…he got better), but it’s telling that he didn’t even try to take down Smaug by himself. OVERALL: Gothmog the Balrog. He also has given his Balrogs decent durability speed and strength feats you just have to look for them. One cultural phenomenon that’s largely escaped “Who Would”-ism is the legendarium of J.R.R. They … Granted once they emerged from the lake, The Balrog was able to reignite it's fires returning most of its strength through it. Alas! Thank you I know where Smaug attacked now can you name specific feats that show Smaug's speed strength and durability. Here it is: Could Gandalf have fought Smaug as he did the Balrog? This is all based on feats that have, or have not, been shown regarding Balrogs. This tale of supernatural horror from the author of Koko, The Talisman and Mr X. concerns two boys at a New England boarding school. The movie version can probably compete with the dragon on a physical level, the book version however had magic to rival that of Gandalf the Grey. Some archer or troll will get lucky eventually, Smaug would kill hundreds to … To withdraw your consent, see Your Choices. ANSWER: J.R.R. Can Balrog defeat Smaug? But the Balrogs are Maia. @syndicate: There haven't been any feats to suggest any Balrogs short of Durins Bane could match a Dragon in size and strength, in fact quite the opposite. Now it's possible that Gandalf t'identifie know about the dragon's weaknesses. A limited edition publication of music compositions by Zahra Partovi, with images by Susan Weil. So saying the balrogs can travel a certain distance in a certain amount of time says nothing of their ability to fight at those speeds, and it certainly doesn't mean they are maneuverable. But then, would the dragon-spell work against a demon of terror? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. This fight is between Smaug and Durin's Bane. Dragons were said to be stronger than Balrogs. It was also mentioned that the fire of intelligent dragon's was powerful enough to destroy the ring. He also led numerous battles under Morgoth's campaign. for the gulls. He lives outside Chicago with his wife and son. Place - A giant piece of land with concrete. That is pure speculation on your part and I would advice that you cease that line of thought. Painstakingly restored from Tolkienâs manuscripts and presented for the first time as a continuous and standalone story, the epic tale of Beren and Lúthien will reunite fans of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings with Elves and Men, ... In the distant future, society has crumbled. Even Gothmog, greatest of all balrogs, was himself only a match for the greatest of elves. Not much is known about Gothmog, except that he slew two legendary heroes in his time (not counting Ecthelion, since both of them died). I'll say smaug based on speed, better flight ability and his dragon scales, I can't see the average balrog getting through that with his sword, though I do like balrogs 10x more than smaug. My opinion is that Gandalf could beat Smaug, because Gandalf is a Maiar. I did answered a similar question here sometime ago. He can slash or whip Smaug with his fiery sword or his fiery whip and might even cut off his wings … Later Balrog can finish him off by tearing him into pieces … Is Smaug the last dragon? Additionally they Balrog out classes him entirely. He hypnotizes Túrin Turambar and his sister Nienor into committing incest and then suicide, which is a dick move even for a lizard from hell. Magic in Lord of the Ring is super hard to quantify, a Balrog is able to go toe to toe with Gandalf, who is crazy powerful, but then there is no reference point for … Sure, they have wings. Smaug, for years, was pretty much hiding in plain sight, yet Gandalf never organized a party of warriors to assault the dragon. Along with that why would the balrogs not move at all and willingly let the Balrog carry him off? Basically numbers and surprise. Smaugs best feat was burning down a city and bulldozing through an army of Dwarves. Smaug is not the strongest dragon, or the oldest. Implied but never stated. Now Durin's Bane and Gothmog were powerful Balrog's but it doesn't mean they had extra limbs and weapons then the Balrogs along with that multiple Balrog's showed that they can cross to one end of Middle Earth to the other in less then a minute and regardless of if they have used it in combat before it is an applicable speed feat. Yes Sauron would win, he was a top class Maia, way above all others Maia we knew in the books, there is a reason Gothmog was a Balrog and not a leader of Balrogs … I mean, that's kind of a big deal. Also, bumping the other thread was unnecessary. That is not a promising record for winged demons of terror. Once I have my answer I can give you the answer and close this thread. Now is this a specific Balrog like Durin's Bane or Gothmog or is this simply just some random Balrog spirit? @Bo88gdan: Dragons can bite, and swish tail around.. @PrinceAragorn1: But Balrog is Shadow and fire how are bites gonn hurt him ? Win what? . In fact he was in grievous danger of coming under the dragon-spell.”. And considering Smaug was defeated in one shot by an arrow to the heart....I'm gonna go with the Balrog. In his Preface, Robert Morse states that both Vergil and Tolkien present myth as an aspect of an historical continuum. Lets not forget Gandalf had Glamdring when fighting the Balrog. Theoretically, then, up close or at a distance, Smaug’s eyes can put Durin’s Bane under the dragon-spell. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire, Tolkien’s dragons serve as weapons of mass destruction—and, in fact, in the earliest versions of Tolkien’s legendarium, the “dragons” that destroy the Elven city of Gondolin are war machines, not actual creatures. The average balrog was matched by an elf from the first age. Razul. The Magic was more effective but Sword Jabs seem to hit him like a solid being as well. Their MIGHT be a balrogs 3 times the height of a human but that would be the only one or one of a few. Here's every major event that occurs between The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.Although Peter Jackson's movie trilogies went in reverse order à la Star Wars, J.R.R. Walking corpses and black-market liquor: the quiet life. The texts don’t provide much evidence for our battle. I also don’t recall anyone defeating a balrog without also dying in the process. The tales of The Silmarillion are set in an age when Morgoth, the first Dark Lord, dwelt in Middle-Earth, and the High Elves made war upon him for the recovery of the Silmarils, the jewels containing the pure light of Valinor. More tellingly, in the War of Wrath that brings an end to Morgoth’s reign and the First Age, “the Balrogs were destroyed, save some few that fled and hid themselves in caverns inaccessible at the roots of the earth.” The release of the winged dragons—Smaug’s ancestors—however, was “so sudden and ruinous…that the host of the Valar were driven back.” Tolkien doesn’t provide the number of dragons or Balrogs here, so we can’t know how much the sheer quantity of Balrogs and dragons played a part. Still, Middle-earth is rife with interesting match-ups and none more so than a battle between the last surviving Dark Powers of Fire in the Third Age: What if Smaug had sought the treasures of Moria rather than Erebor, and so woke Durin’s Bane? Smaug would either burn himself trying to pick up the Balrog or be unable to pick him up in the first place due to his weight. Christopher Tolkien, editor, contributes three illuminating essays that explore the literary world of King Arthur, reveal the deeper meaning of the verses and the painstaking work his father applied to bring the poem to a finished form, and ... therefore we can conclude that they were easier killed than balrogs cause you never hear of people killing balrogs cause they never tried cause it was too hard . Peter Jackson’s Hobbit trilogy gave us a few battles we didn’t know we wanted, and still don’t (Legolas vs. Bolg; Thranduil vs. But a Balrog wouldn't be too affected by fire and far more terrible weapons. Anyone who has killed a balrog also died, the same cannot be said for dragons, Balrog: an ancient immortal demon with powerful supernatural abilities. The Balrog maneuvered through the mine shafts and on the mountain when it fought Gandalf so I would see no reason why it is not as if not more maneuverable the Smaug. Aren't Balrog's immune to fire. @CadenceV2: Gandalf used a lot of magic to defeat balrog not just sword Swords with out magic cannot hurt Balrog. It's fair enough that Balrogs can fly, in fact I would expect them to be more maneuverable than dragons, but once again, there aren't any feats to suggest a lesser Balrog is more maneuverable. But while the Wizards were restricted in the power they could access while in human form, Sauron and the Balrog were not. During the War of Wrath, it was the Winged Dragons, not the Balrogs, who pushed the forces of the Valar back. Then there’s Gandalf the Grey, who managed to kill a Balrog single-handed, but decided to manipulate some Dwarves and one very reluctant hobbit into dealing with Smaug. Found insideIn the Tale of The Fall of Gondolin are two of the greatest powers in the world. There is Morgoth of the uttermost evil, unseen in this story but ruling over a vast military power from his fortress of Angband. Still, the dragons proved more effective in battle. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), © 2021 Macmillan | All stories, art, and posts are the copyright of their respective authors. Size matters here, and this is something that swings in Smaug's favor again. one left from long ago. 7 years ago. The feats of one balrog aren't applicable to another in the same way two humans don't have applicable feats. A Super Street Fighter 2 tournament? Their primary narrative purpose in The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings is to provide an appropriately noble and titanic death for the greatest heroes: Feanor, Fingon, Ecthelion, Glorfindel, and Gandalf the Grey all meet their ends in combat with these evils of the ancient world (one can’t help but wonder what would have happened had Glorfindel accompanied the Fellowship of the Ring as Elrond originally intended: would he have taken Gandalf’s place in fighting the Balrog on the Bridge of Khazad-dum and shouted “Not this shit again!” instead of “Fly, you fools!” as he tumbled into the abyss?). It examines not just types of political systems, but cultural differences, international relations and why there were so many wars over 7000 years of Middle-earth's history. (How those conflicts were waged will be covered in the successor ... I'd say both of them can win without it being ridiculous, so it depends on what Tolkien want to tell us. The water quenched the Balrog's fire, reducing it to "a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake". @Bo88gdan: You know, the regular way Dragons kill things? How do you people think that Smaug can Defeat Balrog ? First, Middle-earth has a certain literary cachet other pop cultural universes lack. If it was movie versions Smaug would have a better chance but it would still be debatable. Sure, there have been a few articles imagining Aragorn facing off against Jaime Lannister and the like, but they’re relatively rare compared to the heated “Captain America vs. Batman” or “Ninjas vs. Pirates” discussions that pop up regularly over pizza and pipe-weed. An impressive accolade. He was also known to be exceptionally smart. Of course, the Gandalf the Grey in The Hobbit is, in many ways, a different character from the Gandalf the Grey in The Lord of the Rings—as different, really, as he is from Gandalf the White. Smaug is arguably too powerful to fall under his spell. It's like saying that all of Bruce Lee's feats are applicable to every human on Earth. Tolkien. " -- Douglas A. Anderson, author of The Annotated Hobbit The Hobbit is one of the most widely read and best-loved books of the twentieth century. Now Corey Olsen takes readers deep within the text to uncover its secrets and delights. It is a Maia created be Eru compared to a sub-creation of a Valar, Gandalf, a Maia, killed a Balrog but also died. The Balrog surely was another such … I voted for A balrog.Due to Darwin's theory. It’s a question that’s lead to untold hours of heated discussion, ruined hundreds of friendships, and earned billions of dollars at the box office with movies like Captain America: Civil War and Batman v Superman. Smaug would snatch up Durin’s Bane and gobble him up with his sword-sharp teeth (and we know swords can kill Balrogs). Smaug soloed a kingdom, a lone archer should have stood no chance at all. Glorfindel and the Balrog, by John Howe. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/smaug-vs-durins-bane/741626/. The lottery? Also, Smaug's death to Bard was a one in a million freak accident stroke of luck. There used to be more, and some much more powerful than Smaug. The book concludes with an elaborate account of the structure of this language by Arundel Lowdham, a member of the Notion Club, who learned it in his dreams. Balrogs were the foot soldiers while dragons were the tanks and bombers. Starting distance - 200 meters . This brand new, shorter edition of the critically acclaimed work includes J.R.R. Tolkien's complete draft manuscript of 'The Hobbit', together with notes about its history, and is perfect for readers of all ages wishing to know more about ... Since The Two Towers and the 2nd Harry Potter movie is out we better start another one of these threads. He's bigger than the Balrog and has a lot more tools at his disposal, and is likely immune to Balrog's fire. Smaug was such a threat. The book concludes with two unique abandoned stories: The New Shadow, set in Gondor during the Fourth Age, and the tale of Tal-elmar, in which the coming of the dreaded Numenorean ships is seen through the eyes of men of Middle-earth in the ... They have translatable feats and direct feats enough so that they could defeat Smaug a young winged fire drake. Let acclaimed Tolkien artist John Howe take you on an unforgettable journey across Middle-earth, from Bag End to Mordor, in this richly illustrated sketchbook fully of previously unseen artwork, anecdotes and meditations on Middle-earth. He lost even more power at his defeat at the end of the second age to the last alliance. We have no information at all about how the fight through Moria's chasms played out, so you can't use that as an example of a balrog's agility anyway. So my guess is Tolkien felt even Gandalf was not powerful enough to take on Smaug single handed or with a group. The second of two companion volumes which documents the later writing of The Silmarillion, Tolkien's epic tale of war. But Durins Bane is not a regular one. Smaug stays on the ground. I don't see why as a species the Balrogs wouldn't have the same weapons abilities and limbs as eachother that's like saying just because your a human doesn't make you have 2 eyes or 5 fingers it's illogical and plain wrong. Smaug isn’t Maiar, but his power is equivalent. Balrog for sure. Second, the central characters of Tolkien’s most widely read books are the diminutive and good-natured hobbits, who are hard to press into the service of battling other heroes. He was feared across the land and was the greatest of all the Balrogs. Found insideSince many of the great questions of philosophy are included in the 50-theme outline, this book can also be read as an engaging introduction to philosophy. We don’t know if Smaug could freeze people and mind-control them as well as his forebear Glaurung, but just glimpsing Smaug’s eye made Bilbo want “to rush out and reveal himself and tell all the truth to Smaug. Ecthelion only won by sacrificing himself by pulling them both into the Fountain of Kings, where Gothmog's fire was put out (and he died) and Ecthelion drowned. While Bard, a man, killed Smaug without any harm to himself, Smaugs greatest weapon is breathing fire while flying, which is very effective against mortals. That was with no enchantments or power ups. A flaming sword probably isn’t much good against a dragon, and spells don’t seem to work well on them either: the Elves of Nargothrond surely had magic to spare, but that didn’t stop Glaurung from turning their fortress-home into his own personal Scrooge McDuck-style money vault. I have to believe, not all of its strength. Found insideThe first of two companion volumes which documents the later writing of The Silmarillion, Tolkienâs epic tale of war. Plus I doubt fire can damage a balrog. Depends on how you look at it. The Scenery). @syndicate: Since OP didn't mention a specific balrog, its assumed to the average run of the mill balrog, book feats would be more consistent. Balrogs are great warriors, and even if they fly about as well as dead penguins, they can probably hurl a flaming sword with pinpoint accuracy. And Smaug is not even a great worm. Balrogs and dragons both originated in the First Age as servants of Morgoth, the first and greatest Dark Lord. If Gandalf the Grey could beat a Balrog, then Sauron could. 1: There are too many. Being a Maiar isn't actually equivalent to being powerful. This text stands in the grand tradition of writing and witchcraft and suggests that magic was alive and well in 19th-century Scotland, as contemporary newspaper reports confirm. Even if Balrogs can fly—and nothing Tolkien ever wrote indicates that they can—then they clearly suck at it. Dragons and Balrogs never face off in Middle-earth, though they are present together at a few battles during the First Age. In fact he needed aid of another balrog to slay Fingon. Case and point the balrogs in the first age who often lost 1v1 against the elves of that age. Tolkien never tells us how they came to be, though in The Children of Húrin, the first dragon Glaurung, “spoke by the evil spirit that was in him.” It’s likely, then, that the first dragons were Maia spirits animating mortal bodies—like Wizards, but with scales and fire (think how much more effective Radagast would have been as an enormous, flaming horror reptile). Bilbo Baggins, a respectable, well-to-do hobbit, lives comfortably in his hobbit-hole until the day the wandering wizard Gandalf chooses him to take part in an adventure from which he may never return. We would win, just by being able to read about it (or watch it). This first US edition brings together all twelve books into three hardback volumes that expand upon the mythology and numerous stories of Middle-Earth. That leaves the Balrog with his whip of many thongs, which he could use to hogtie Smaug. 14d Lúthien. Melkor was weakened and Ungoliant was amped during that encounter. And probably a little gassy. All the New Horror and Genre-Bending Books Arriving in September! The water quenched the Balrog's fire, reducing it to "a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake". !I'm only basing this off the fact that my battle is between Gothmog and Smaug, NOT a regular balrog, like Durin's Bane. When has Smaug demonstrated a strength feat high enough to pick up a moving Balrog? Honestly I believe a balrog could beat Smaug in either the books or movies but it's a definite stomp book wise movie wise is debatable but probably the balrogs. Were Smaug and the Balrog similar in power? The winner is the wyrm. But even then, Gandalf, a Maiar, fell (died) killing Durin's Bane. Can Gandalf defeat Smaug? But there is a severe lack of battle feats for the Balrogs, which puts them significantly beneath most known dragons. Alright I'm here now all of you can praise Illuvatar. However!! I think they are similar power tier but Smaug should win. Travel time is not applicable to combat speed. If we are talking about Durins Bane, the only really well known Balrog, we can assume it is powerful enough to rival Smaug as it was the dwarves waking it that caused the Kingdom of Moria's eventual collapse. The balrog that fought Gandalf in Moria wasn't flying, or else it wouldn't have fallen like it did. The Balrog of Moria is a lot more powerful than Gandalf the Grey, who needs to use a ring of power to defeat the monster. Balrogs are ancient Maia, equivalent to lesser gods or archangels. Balrogs have a few weapons available to them: flaming swords, whips of many thongs, and magic. and hard to defeat. My opinion is that Gandalf … Then he powered it up for the kill. No, it was stated that not even the fire of Ancalagon The Black, the greatest of all dragons, could melt the One Ring only lesser Rings. But the Balrog has better credentials. This collection will entertain all who appreciate the art of masterful letter writing. The Letters of J.R.R Tolkien sheds much light on Tolkien's creative genius and grand design for the creation of a whole new world: Middle-earth. A young woman discovers a strange portal in her uncleâs house, leading to madness and terror in this gripping new novel from the author of the âinnovative, unexpected, and absolutely chillingâ (Mira Grant, Nebula Awardâwinning ... You also did not specify how Smaug would catch a Balrog when the Balrog can move from one end of Middle Earth to the other within a minute. 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My answer I can say that it is perilous to stir in the... If Balrogs can fly—and nothing Tolkien ever wrote indicates that they can—then they clearly at! Feats that show Smaug 's death to Bard was a one in a bad position and needed aid another... For the greatest powers in the Ultimate Dragon/Balrog Showdown times the height of a big deal died ) Durin! To defeat him his fiery breath and his writing has also appeared at Catapult and Cast of Wonders threat fled. “ who would win in a bad position and needed aid defeat Smaug, but before... Original name ) of two companion volumes which documents the later writing of the Balrogs!
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